Cool Moves
Recently I was working out at a gym, hitting a heavy bag. A bit into my workout another guy started hitting the heavy bag next to me. He was obviously a very skilled boxer, and his technique was awesome. Basic boxing is the first thing I teach in the MMA Base, to get practitioners accustomed to distance, position, timing, throwing punches, getting punched at, and so on. But I’m no expert boxer. So this guy next to me was moving and hitting the bag in a way that I’m not able to. He had very cool moves.
We both happened to take a break at the same time, and he complimented me on what I was doing. There was a boxing ring next to us, and I told him, “Well, I wouldn’t want to get in the ring with you!” He replied, “I wouldn’t want to get in the ring with you!” We talked a little more, and figured the best thing for both of us would be to get in the ring for a little sparring, and to share our knowledge. I wanted to get better at what he was doing, and he wanted to get better at what I was doing.
In the first round we limited our light sparring to boxing only. I felt like a 6 year old sparring with an adult competitive boxer. He was able to evade, parry, or cover every punch I threw, and to counter my attacks with awesome counterpunching skill. He gave me some pointers, and showed me the mechanics of some of his footwork and evasive movement.
Then it was time for the second round, where we could add kicks, knees, elbows, and clinch. In this round he felt like the 6 year old. His boxing skills seemed to instantly disappear. In the first round, I couldn’t touch him. In the second round, he couldn’t touch me, and I could hit him at will.
I showed him how he could easily add a few kicks to his toolbox, how he could use knees and elbows in the clinch, how he could defend against kicks and clinch entries, and so on. With his skill in footwork and movement, I figured it would be easy for him to quickly apply that material. And I’m sure he figured it would be easy for me to apply his footwork and evasive movement. Of course, it wasn’t easy for either of us.
When he tried to add kicking and kicking defense, he was too busy thinking to react in real time. And when I tried to add his evasive movements and certain covers, I was too slow to make them work. I went home thinking I had some really cool moves to train and work on.
The next time I met my training partner for practice, we started drilling these new boxing moves. After drilling them for more than an hour, it was time to try them in light sparring. A couple of the techniques worked well, but the one that I thought was the coolest, an evasive technique that combined footwork, body/head movement, and switching leads, didn’t work at all for us. We were too slow, and hadn’t trained it enough. Additionally, compared to our standard high percentage material, even the new techniques that worked didn’t work as well as what we normally used.
High Percentage Techniques
If we wanted to become boxers, then it would make sense to continue training these techniques. But if we prefer to train a mix of techniques that are as efficient and effective as possible for self defense, then it probably doesn’t. Could these new techniques work in self defense? Definitely. But are there higher percentage techniques/movements? I think so.
If you’re training toward a goal (a boxing fight, a karate kata competition, self defense proficiency, etc.), the techniques you should train most are the techniques that have the highest percent chance of achieving your goal. There is an important difference between what is possible and what is probable. Many moves from other systems might look and feel cool to do, but unless your goal is to look cool, your time would be better spent on your high percentage moves.
The difficulty here, especially for a beginner, is knowing which techniques are high percentage and which are not. If my partner and I trained this evasive movement more, I’m sure we’d be able to make it work. Looking at a positive result though, understanding how it would work and where it would put a practitioner if it did work, I think there are better options in most self defense situations. There are probably exceptions. But with limited training time I lean towards focusing most on techniques and training methods that we know are high percentage for self defense. What techniques are those? My website and books are full of them.
With all the training and teaching I’ve done in functional self defense, I still found myself seeing cool moves and temporarily switching my focus to them. There’s nothing wrong with trying something new. If we didn’t we wouldn’t learn anything. But we need to know when to continue and when to switch course, otherwise we may get stuck going down a path that isn’t ideal for us.
muy interesantes tus comentarios, suponiendo que tenemos algún grado de entrenamiento lo mas recomendable es no combatir con un boxeador ya que es muy rápido. pero si es inevitable combatir. debemos entrar en contacto agarrando con fuerza y aplicar uno o dos golpes definitivos.
Hi David, glad to hear from you and hope you are doing fine. I think the training you engaged in is spot on. When i was a police officer the one thing we focused on in training is bringing the suspect to the ground. I like to use the example of a skyscraper. If the foundation crumbles the building will fall. When i was attacked on different occasions i performed a simple front leg sidekick to the subjects leading leg as he was moving in. The actual target was the side of the knee not the thigh. By performing this technique a couple of things occurred. 1. It stopped the subject immediately by preventing his lower extremity from moving forward which in turn caused him to fall. 2. It allowed me to keep my distance to prevent him from striking or grappling me to the ground. 3. It produced enough pain that the suspect lost all mental awareness to want to continue the attack. I might also add that the only injuries sustained at each of the confrontations by the suspects ranged from a sprain to knee dislocation. None of the injuries required surgery. So in closing i am a big believer in using the most simple and least involved techniques required to get the job done. Take care my friend and thanks again for the valuable input in your website. Always thought provoking and allows me to learn from your experience. Sincerely, Doug.
Thank you Doug! That’s a great example you provided, and while not on my website (it is in my book), the sidekick to the knee is one of the primary kicks I teach in the MMA Base and as a first option in self defense. For self defense I tend to prefer an evasive eye strike or groin slap, but for law enforcement the side kick/stop kick would be a better option. Again, great example.
I’ve been learning Gracie Combatives. I think it’s great. I feel it’s really hands on and would help me in a street situation. Your thoughts about the program.
Hello Ralph. I haven’t seen the current Gracie Combatives program myself so I can’t comment from direct experience. I did get the Gracie self defense VHS tapes back in 1992 or 1993 (from Black Belt Magazine), and based on those tapes and what I have read, it sounds like the GJJ material is higher quality or more effective. I’ve read that the Combatives are surprisingly ineffective compared to other possibilities and compared to the depth of their Jiu Jitsu. But again, I can’t comment from personal experience.
Every martial art and fighting sport such as MMA all have rules but street fighters don’t. I will never have to face a black belt outside a dojo because those people aren’t criminals. Black belts routinely get their asses handed to them on the streets. I know: it happened to me and I was a street cop to boot. I’ve seen it over and over again. Dojo training in an open space with a padded floor isn’t where an attack will take place. If someone tries to shoot on me to take me down he will break both patellas on the concrete.
I’m a black belt and former amateur cage fighter and I trained my entire life to obey rules that don’t exist on the streets. I trained not to strike eyes, balls or the back of the neck which just happen to be the best targets when you’re in trouble. It’s all muscle memory now. When the adrenaline dumps you don’t rise to your expectations, you sink to your level of training and in most cases that training rules out the best defense against a street fighter.
Thanks for your perspective about the realities of the streets.
Great points Chad. The base you get from MMA style training does teach you how to deal with the pressure of a fully resisting opponent, and you often don’t get that from traditional martial arts. But you definitely should add the “dirty tactics” for self defense efficiency/effectiveness. There is a good reason why those techniques aren’t allowed in sports. 😉
Can you give me some insight to Savate?
Hello Animesh. Savate is similar to kickboxing. Can you be more specific?
Great article. I have always been biased toward straight boxing, and it will cover a lot of scenarios. However, I appreciate being reminded that we need to be well rounded (i.e., kicks, elbows, clinch) and focus on the high percentage techniques. Thanks David.
Hello Chris. Boxing is probably THE best system for dealing with upper body striking, and it will take you far, especially in terms of the training and understanding of distance, position, timing, etc.. But it is not a self defense system. It does not prepare you for kicking, clinch, knees, elbows, ground fighting, or weapon use and defense. So it is a great system, but if your interest is physical self defense skills you definitely should add a substantial amount.
Hi david
I would like to see a video of these cool moves you and the boxer did!
Hello Brett. Unfortunately my training partner has very little time to train these days, and I’m traveling more than half of each year now. I would love to make more videos, but it’s probably not going to happen anytime soon.
I like the reality checks here. I switched to boxing from traditional martial arts and although I’m a mediocre boxer, it benefited me greatly. TMAs too often fail to teach off-centerline entries, covered entries, proper defensive skills, good footwork…any time I was taking a bad hiding in TMA sparring I switched to boxing essentials. It’s easy enough to kick from a boxing stance and TMAs rarely can answer a jab, let alone tight hooks and uppercuts.
I think the Muay Thai clinch work is essential. Modern clinch skills have winnowed in sport boxing. Watch the old fights and boxers had them. Read the old books and you’ll see the old bare knuckle swings. Chops, swings, elbows, variegated punches for gloveless encounters and a handful of high-percentage throws that resemble what you see in Judo only geared to slam an opponent who is punching and grabbing you. In 1889, George LaBlanche lost on decision after he used a spinning back fist (“pivot punch,” still banned) to pole-axe an earlier Jack Dempsey.
Last thought: Every left hook is an elbow, an uppercut can be an upwards elbow to the sternum, and you can swing an opponent by the elbow. Depending on how awful your gym is. Head butting is inevitable.
Thanks Alan. I agree with you 100% regarding a boxing base vs. a TMA base for “punching” or hand techniques in general. The base and the training are just far more effective. For self defense you should make some modifications and lots of additions, but boxing is an outstanding base. I also agree with you about Muay Thai clinch work, and what you wrote about converting hooks and uppercuts to elbows.
Savate is a kickboxing style where shoes are worn during ring competition. It is one of my favorite arts. There are standing, jumping and spinning kicks used on low, middle and high lines. Very elegant, very powerful. I attended seminars with Professor Salem Assli in the 90s. Very inspirational!
Hi David, thanks for your response. I agree that using those techniques greatly bring an advantage in facing someone who has only one intent in mind. To hurt you and hurt you BADLY! I found this out when i was a police officer assisting with an arrest at a beer party. While handcuffing a biker, i got blindsided with a kick to the jaw, by another biker wearing steel toe boots. The arrested biker was fighting us on the ground. The kick was powerful enough that i was knocked unconscious, sustained severe whiplash injuries to my neck and eight molars were completely shattered. During their career some officers begin martial arts training, to hopefully give them an advantage, while performing their duties. The problem is that martial arts are not designed for that purpose. They are based on the principles of self defense. When used for self protection, an officer can have a great advantage, in dealing with combatants. But from my own experience, those same techniques just don’t work in apprehending individuals. Trying to restrain and handcuff even a smaller and weaker person can almost be impossible for one officer, unless that officer uses force that may have the potential for injury to the suspect. This is why law enforcement implements such as pepper spray and tazer were developed, so that the officer will have the means to do his or her job hopefully, without causing injury. But there are those times when the same law enforcement tools don’t work. And when those times do arise, then the officer must do what is necessary so that he or she will return home to their family at the end of watch. As an old police officer’s saying goes when having to use force and its ramifications for the officer: ” I would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.” Take care David. Doug.
Thanks for relating your experiences Doug. The phrase “martial arts” is similar to the phrase “sports”. Just as ping pong has little to do with American football, there are HUGE differences between different martial arts. Some of them might work well for law enforcement purposes, and some not. It also depends on the teacher, what he or she focuses on, and the training.
When I was teaching full time I had a different version of the “Fundamental Five” that I used when teaching police officers. The principles/strategies still work the same, but you do need different techniques if your goal is to control someone without hurting them badly, compared to simply taking them out of commission. It’s also much harder to control someone without hurting them, than to do whatever you need to do to stop them, as I’m sure you know.
I certainly don’t have your pedigree or background, but I still agree. I took aikijitsu as a teenager … and was mauled when I started freestyle wrestling. The locks and restraints, as taught, don’t work on a mauler without an assist and certainly don’t carry weight with a marginally competent grappler. I read Kano’s books and early 20th century Japanese Jiu-Jitsu books. What I found was surprising. The locks were followed with Judo-like throws onto the side of the locked arm to power slam an opponent to the ground. One instructor recommended rabbit punching or kicking a downed opponent. The arm twists were done so as to cause spiral fractures.
Most martial arts as taught don’t have the same emphasis on your particular needs, and a former federal officer I knew said he needed to modify his training significantly to account for the “tactical L” to protect his firearm.
In my opinion, police should be allowed to carry saps and blackjacks once more. You need minimal skill to use either and 8-12 oz. of lead shot wrapped in taut leather should take anyone down (head, elbow, collar bone). My family owned a bar in an industrial town and my older relatives lived by the sap and blackjack. I’m sorry to hear you sustained such a grievous injury in your public service.
David, so very true. The real test for martial art effectiveness is on the street. Years ago we had a high ranking Judo instructor, who was also a police sergeant, on the dept. He was in charge of teaching self defense to the police academy recruits. One night while working in a two man unit downtown, the officers came upon a confrontation, involving several intoxicated persons. All of the subjects left the area when ordered to do so except for one. The subject resisted arrest and our Judo instructor sergeant tried to use his techniques to take the subject into custody. Not only did the techniques not work but the officer was injured and had to have assistance taking the man into custody. The Judo program was dropped from the academy curriculum. I am not bashing Judo, but in this time and place, it didn’t produce the intended results that were needed. The emphasis now is strength training and boxing. I would be interested in knowing what your methods of training for law enforcement officers were. I believe most departments today put their emphasis on strength training and cardio fitness to meet the different challenges the officer will face on the street. Gods peace David, Doug.
Interesting about the judo instructor. The great thing about judo is that practitioners test their techniques on fully resisting opponents. This is why Kano’s judo students could beat traditional Japanese ju jutsu students who had far more “deadly” techniques, because the training was so much more realistic. BUT, as with most styles judo is extremely limited in terms of not training to deal with strikes, weapons, small joint locks, dirty tactics, etc., etc.. Any style is by nature going to be limited, and “on the street” where you can come in contact with anything, the holes in whatever individual style a person is practicing will eventually come to light.
The fundamentals of fighting are the same no matter what though. There is stand up, clinch, and ground. There is striking, grappling (including joint locks, chokes, etc.), dirty tactics, and weapon use and defense. There is nothing more than that. The key is that all areas must be trained, and trained well. The MMA Base is ideal for training, because you learn to use all techniques in all ranges against a fully resisting opponent. But you have to add the dirty tactics and defense against them, and you have to add weapon use and defense. So in that sense what I taught cops was the same as what I taught everyone. But in terms of specific techniques to take someone down rather than injuring them, adaptations need to be made. If you look at what I call the Smack and Hack for example, instead of using a knee and elbow after the fourth picture (or any other destructive option), you can use a bent arm lock (kimura) to slam the opponent to the ground. You can hold him, break his arm/shoulder, or cuff him. Most of these variations are in my first book…the throwing, joint locking, and choking options. When I taught police I just laid those options out as the first options for on the job.
Hi, I just wanted to say that judo techniques have their place in self defence but,like most martial art styles, most of the techniques won’t be effective for everyone. I have trained numerous martial arts and have found that the practitioner needs to find out what works for them, maybe 2 or 3 techniques from each style, and train these techniques continuously and discard all the others
Hi Alan We were issued Saps or “beavertails” as we called them. To be honest the did very little in aiding an officer. In fact almost the majority of time they would produce bleeding lacerations on the skull if struck there. I found they were most beneficial as door knockers. Blackjacks were never issued do the high probability of sull injuries if struck there.
Thanks Alan for your kind words. Doug.
I would agree with this Doug… In my experience, and based on the experiences of many of my students, what you need is solid control of your opponent and then something that either puts them under control “permanently” (cuffing them or locking them up), or something that physically disables them so they cannot continue. Blackjacks really don’t have the knockout power you would need a blunt object to have, or the range that gives you a real advantage with them. It would hurt to get hit with one, but in a real physical conflict pain does almost nothing…unless your opponent isn’t very serious. You have to have either solid control or something that disables the opponent, which is a kind of control actually.
Hallo,david its its been a long time,i agree you have to have astrong base with boxing ,kickboxing and wersling for starting and i getting that with sanshou and mmma ,but fot the street you have to add some dirty tactics and moves,last time a was teaching a judo guy brown belt the basic stand up drill for fighting ,boy that was hard,its important to become a versatile fighter and trainfor that ,anyway still trainingon the heavy bag to and to some solo drills i’v learned from my teacher mr de meere take care greetings.tom
hi David,
What are your thoughts on systema as a functional self defense program?
Hello John. I don’t think it’s functional at all. Of course, anything can work in certain situations, but there are much better options than Systema. If you spend some time reading the posts under the training category of this blog, on the main portion of my website, or in my books, it should become clear why Systema isn’t a good option.